As the diplomatic row between
Australia and Indonesia deepens, what are your thoughts on the Australian
Government's position?
Do you think that Tony
Abbott should apologise to Indonesia for Austrlia's past actions when Indonesian
top officials' phones were being tapped? Share your comments
below...
Posted by on 22 Nov 2013
Tony shd say, "Gee, sorry about that, we didn't do it. It was Kevin & Julia who did it when the Labor Party was in government. But it is alright now - they've gone!
I don't think the government should tap anyones phone but if the truth be known Indonesia probably would have done it to Australia if they had thought of it. I don't like Abbott but I don't think he should apologise.
Yes - he should apologise! I don't think the Liberal Party has a very good policy at all!
This is how it works. Indonesia bangs on about this until the elections so the powers that be seem strong on international relations to the people. After the election Australia gives them a sweet deal on trade or aid and everyone goes back to watching what the other is doing until the next time and there will be a next time, because only a fool would trust people responsible for bring you, ABC journalist being murdered, East Timor, repeated corruption and systematic abuse of their own people. Should anyone apologise, who cares, because they know and we should know nothing changes.
4 WHAT?? That they woun't Take the 'Boats' Back??
Miss Gillard and Mr Rudd have a lot to answer for. Our security is of high importants, Liberal Nationals have to fix serious threats labor have created.
The Prime Minister is correct - we should not be drawn into the conversation in this in anyway. Its history
Abbott is a clown....He can brainwash the stupid but most people who are not consumed by greed should make an effort to read between the lines...The current goverments agendas include capitalism, mass population growth and its own ego
Mmmmmm. apologise for what?
yes tony abbott has a lot to answere for he,s th worst prime minister that australias ever had and a lot of people wished now they hadnt voted for him but it supprising what a lot of lies do when your desparate and he was desparate to be prime minister so hopfully next time people wont belive the lies. you just have to lookin his eyes their not th eyes of someone telling the truth. would be nice to get rid of him and campbell newman cause hes the same qld,s going to the dogs too but people belived him now wish hey hadnt.
Oh no the Indonesian government has been offended and pulled out of talks with with the Aussie government(no sign of this softness when dealing with tourists who end up in their jails)). The Indonesian government will,no matter who governs Australia, do nothing to stop illegal imigration as they do not want to deal with the problem of refugees,they take our money (what they do with it we dont know), they have a flourishing blackmarket that can desroy legitamate companies. So as for apologising to them for anything- No Bloody Way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am of the opinion that Mungo McCallum if right when he says that Abbott did not directly create the problem. However as leader of this country he should think very hard before he goes out of his way to make an enemy of a close and important neighbour.
No, No, No........Stand your ground, what we need from Indonesia is to behave and be grateful for the Millions of Dollars we give them in aid.
All nations do this,the Indonesians surely do this as well. This is being used to bolster the Indonesian presidents local political position. Some straight talking behind the scenes should occur.
I totally agree with Dakuwaga. I am in full support of Tony Abbot and the way he handled himself. I am sick of Australia always being told we need to apologise for something we did...I find it interesting that we are always in the wrong. If outsiders don't like our rules then go home. Just an an aside I lived in Darwin for 4 years and there are 16 gardeners at the Indonesian Embassy but no gardens? Are they spying on Australia....food for thought. I say stop all aid, immigration, all co-operation and see what happens then. Indonesia has never done anything to help us but they always want us to help them. Enough!
Yes he should he doesnt mean anything he says anyway and it it soothes the hurt it would be a good thing. He showed disrespect to SBY by not responding to him directly which any international would have done first as a matter of urgency and protocol
So why didn't President Obama apologise to the Germans???? Because he didn't have to and he rose above the accusations just as Tony Abbot did. We have done nothing that the Indonesians haven't done themselves. When was the last time Indonesia helped Australia on anything, offered us aid with the floods and bushfires????? Right they didn't, they never have and they never will. Grow up and get your facts right.....
No, it seems they all do it, the only difference if we got found out, as for loosing Indonesia's support with the boat people, what support is that, Christmas Island is just off shore in Indonesia and about 1500 kilometers from Australia, why is it our responsibility
na just cut the costs and stop given them lots of stuff , concentrate on our country and people
I think "they do protest too much". I think they have been all doing it and we just had the whistle blown on us. No why should we apologise, they need us more than we need them.
He should apologise by saying " Sorry, it will not happen again."
Yes - I think Tony Abbott should apologise!
Maybe not aplogise for what we did but apologise for what he has said so far and explain the reason why we were monitoring these calls in 2009.
Of course he should! All he has said so far is that he is sorry for the embarrassment caused to the Indonesian president - but it's HIM that should be embarrassed. It is HE who did the wrong thing. He makes me ashamed to be Australian.
why do you actually think the Indonesians have never spied. grow up.....
If he thinks he didn't have to so be it
No way he should apologise when every country does it. The PM has written to the President over this and that should be sufficient. Only ones who will try to keep it going over there.
is this the message you teach your kids?...its ok everybody did it,so here,have a lolly...
Yes if he is a gentlemen, he should, but the media should stay out of the privacy gov business. As that Phillipino man was saying on t.v. every government does it. The intelligent minister has to do his job, but seeing that Mr Abbott is in charge now, he has to apologize.
No he should not apologise , it's polotics, this is what allllll countries do to protect their borders, it happens get over it. I for one am glad that our country is keeping an eye on Indonesia, we give them so much aid and all they seem to do is complain and moan.
Kezza I think he has inherited a problem from the former givernment however I feel also it is an election guise on the Indonesians part as well. Yes he should apologise however I dont feel he shall be very humble in his attempt.Feel also alot of coalition set up which is quite shameful as it has caused bad relationships berween the two countries. Dont have any trust in our political systems here at all.
Having read through the comments below, I am not surprised that we have the Government we now have. These people have no understanding of Politics nor Diplomacy. T. Abbott has allowed this to situation to get way out of control instead of nipping it in the bud in the beginning. We cannot allow our relationship with Indonesia to fail. They are our neighbours, regardless of their own Politics & whether we agree with them. Alll countries spy on others, it is known & accepted & has been going on since the year dot. Making all these assertions of whose fault it is does not solve the situation. Neither K. Rudd or J. Gillard would never allowed it to get this far as both were able to handle diplomatic meetings without conflict. Mr. Abbott really does not have the skills for international dialogue.
well said,my thoughts too. there is too much go team ra ra ra and not enogh understanding of how our govt. actually works.
Saving face is such an important part of Asian society that all our politicians and in particular the PM must have the diplomatic skills to use language that calms the waters. They have advisors in these matters so maybe TA thinks he's scoring points at home (which seems to be the case judging by many comments here). From my viewpoint he's not smart enough to keep both sides happy by well chosen words.
Spot on Banksia. Others who also know what they're talking about agree with you: Saving face: lessons for Abbott on working with Indonesia http://theconversation.com/saving-face-lessons-for-abbott-on-wo rking-with-indonesia-20545 Abbott 'lacks diplomacy skills', says former Indonesian intelligence chief http://www.theguardian.com/world/201 3/nov/22/abbott-lacks-diplomacy-skills-says-former-indonesian-intelligence-chief
Rudd and Gillard are at fault - let Shorten say something about THAT! Stop the aid if they get too stroppy!!!
Yep acmn - that $14.6 BILLION in trade really doesn't matter, or that fact that Indonesia has a population of 250 million, 45 million of those considered "middle class." Of course the fact that Indonesia also has the largest economy in South East Asia and is predicted to be the 7th largest economy in the world by 2030 is of no concern either. Some here need to put away the "me big white bwana, you just colonial underlings" attitudes and move out of the 19th century...
Tony Abbott shouldn't be apologising to the Indonesians because it wasn't his government that did it. But he should be kicking ASIO into line. Demanding the Director's resignation, real displinary action against those responsible and that it be done in the public eye. Anything less implies he's either quite happy with this sort of behavior or that he's under the thumb of our so-called security services.
This was not the doing of the currant government, Rudd and Gillard implemented the bug. This type of thing has been going on for ever, if we think Australia is not being spyed on this very minuite we are ostiches with our heads in the sand. Indonesia has been using Australia long enough, we have been training their troops for years, I wont be surprised if all the training we gave them is used against us. And no Tony Abbott should not apologise.
A BIG NO from me I feel THEY would see an apology as "being weak ", even tho the are demanding one. Perhaps an apology from Abbott would make it seem ok, that they had done the same thing themselves in past times, and either still do it, or would if they could. Might be a case of sour grapes JJ
The Government was in accord on this matter, in terms of past behaviours. What was considered 'fair' before the Snowden leaks, is no longer relevant. The current leader (Abbott) is responsibile to forge a new 21C relationship with Indonesia, based on communication and trust. If that means saying 'sorry', say, 'sorry,' and mean it. It is truly a sorry situation if nearest neighbours are not respectful of each other, with each other's best interests at heart.
This mess was caused by the Rudd/Gillard govt so it should be either of those 2 idiots who appologise for what has been a insult to the Indonesian president. Indonesians are a very proud race & something like this could damage diplomatic status between the 2 countries. Having said that I believe that Tony Abbott is correct in standing firm on this issue because to publicly appologise would cause him to lose status in the eyes of Indonesia & spying happens in all countires to ensure the safety of the residents. Indonesia needs to back off & let this cool down because if they want to cut ties with us then they may lose the huge amount of foreign aid we supply plus the financial & material support for stopping the people smugglers, not that Indonesia was doing anything about it though. Australia was doing all the work to prevent people smugglers & heavily involved in the rescues/capture in Indonesian waters so what is the difference? There are several alternatives to the illegal boats other than forcing them back to that country so it is just Indonesia blowing hot air. This would all die down if Indonesia shut up about it because it is not an issue for true Australians, I can guarantee that if the President of Indonesia was offered a bribe the matter would disappear overnight
Yes. I think he should apologise.
YES, YES, YES.
I do not believe that Tony should do anything at this moment as Indonesia has been using Australia as a dumping ground.
I don't believe they should comment on the matter at all. if anyone apologises they admit guilt- to admit guilt is suggesting they did something wrong. They need to let it die down. Surely in this day and age we don't need politicians apoligising for every thing they do or didn't do- its riduculous.
I know that what happened to them in the past was wrong an unforgettable but we the people today r not the one who cause them the pain and sorry as I said that nothing can change what was done to them but I believe that sorry can only be said so much
what people don't understand about politics is it's not just one party doing all the deciding all parties must put to vote any decisions so people cant just blame labour party its all politions
no as most governments spy on other countries and tony abbott was not responsible gillard, rudd and howard should take the blame and all aid should be suspended to indonesia immediately
Poor Tony! He is sure coping it, others make a mess and he is left to clean it up. NO! NO! NO! He/we have not done wrong, those who were caught should apologise. We need to stand up beside him and support him, as Proud Australians.
No He cannot. It was under the previous Government's watch!!
why should he apologise for something he had no control over
Yes, I guess
i am very proud of Mr. Abbott of his humble response considering it was not his leadership when that happened. My only question was why Indonesian gov't just rrespond NOW..??? ..2009, that was 5 years ago something is just not right, there might be something going on which they cannot explain or it's a matter of national security. I understood that any gov't are not that transparent enough for the sake of their people. However I do believe the negative effect of any wrongdoing in the gov't is chaos.
no-one should apologize. Indonesia has done it to us, amongst other atrosities. to bow to another nations insecurity is a sign of cowardice and submission. it is Indonesia that should apologise to us
No he should not he is doing whats right for the government and the australian people to prevent this from happening again and to put a stop to this once and for all
NO - ABBOTT SHOULD NOT APOLOGISE!! It was under the watch of either Gilliard or that little snivelling turd - Rudd The Dud, that this happened. I'm sure that Indonesia spies on us - all the countries spy on each other. Abbott shouldn't be apologising, it should be Bam Bam Yudiyono, who should be showing a bit of grattitude for the billions of dollars in Aid we give to his government. In return for ths aid, he should be helping out with illegals coming to our country through his, by keeping these people out of his - or only giving them 7 day visas with strict conditions on where they can travel.
if we must have a Liberal govt PLEASE let Turnball run this show..Abbott is an embarrasment of a global scale
Every government & every countries security agency spy on every other country & every citizen of that country as well. It will never change so what the hell is the big outrage over? I'm more outraged that the government & police departments spy on its citizens.
It doesn't matter. Tony Abbott's word isn't worth anything, anyway, so an apology would mean nothing. All governments spy on one another - they always have and they always will. The extent to which they spy is only dependent on what resources they have. The best thing that Tony Abbott *could do* for the good of Australia, is to resign and get the rest of his colleagues to do so as well, particularly Pyne, Morrison & Biship - and if Turnbull continues to wreck the NBN, him too.
I totally agree! The point is not the spying as both countries have been guilty of it, but it is Tony's rude tactless attitude to another President of a country. I wonder how TA would like having his private phone calls tapped between him and his wife/George Pell/daughters. HE is the current leader of this country not the Labor party, and therefore it is part of his job. He is governing a nation of 26 million people, SBY is governing over 200+ million people. Indonesia does not NEED us as much as we need their trade and friendship, Bali is only a very small island in Indo (6 million people) and the only people who would be hurt there are most of the population who rely on Tourism for a livelihood. Their living standards are far below the average Australian's, they work hard for little money and are contented with what they have unlike most of us. They understand the value of good manners, and close family. Unfortunately we have elected a government of racists (anyone realise TA is also about to repeal the anti racism laws!) who will do anything to avoid letting us know anything about how they are running our government, spying on us (tapping our phones/internet etc) and generally treating us like mushrooms. They were very loud, rude and critical in opposition and are not up to their new job of being diplomatic and fair in government and are making us the laughing stock of the rest of the world. TA and Co need to take a course in anger management and learn how to deal with other nations (as well as Australians) in a courteous honest manner.
The only racist in this country are the ones that do no belong here, I was born in another country my parents came to Australia in 1956 and Austrlians were great, if they made a racist comment we just laughed it off and it changed peoples attitude, we are too politicalyy correct now days and we need to grow up, remember their are good and bad people in all races so if someone is angry at a person from another race or nationality that does not meen they are angry at all of them, if Australia was such a racist country why are people breaking their neck to come here and when they do they start with the racist thing, enough is enough lets just get along and stop this childish behaviour, and name calling.
Well put 888Shelley, as for most of the rest, when you get caught with your pants down you apologize. You dont blame someone else, even if it was not on your watch. You are now the head of this country and you inherit the good with the bad. so what are the rest of use going to act like asses like TA does daily and be a simpleton like him???? I thought he was an educated Rhodes Scholar. guess they never learnt manners, common curtesy and accountaility. As for Australian policies, both parties have to agree so both parties are participants with this. but after watching question time since the 3 stooges of Howards era dont expect and apology from TA or anyone in the Liberals party they dont have the balls :) the only thing are have shown themselves to be good at is criicising and being loudmothers. not a nice image for Australia :)
Oh my goodness NO!!! Tony Abbott and his Government, have nothing to apologise for! He was not responsible at the time for these supposed SPYING, and phone Tapping. It was the informass Kevin Rudd and Jullia Gillard who should and must apologise for this mess. They were in control of the Government at that stage of the game, so why should Tony Abbott be held at fault for something that he had no control over? Plus you cannot tell me that they have not been Spying on us or anyone else for that matter, now common lets get real here! The problem is most other Countries Spy on each other, and that's a fact. No Tony should not have to clean up the Rudd / Gillard stuff ups at all. Cheers Mishiee.
Forgive and forget is the easyest way out.
No he shouldn't say sorry, he should stop the aid money going to them and then we should see them pull there heads in
I think the situation calls for diplomatic tact, something Tony Abbott lacks. Intelligence phone tapping is fairly acceptable but not tapping the phone between husband and wife. Because Tony Abbott has not quickly responded to Indonesia the situation is getting out of hand. You will notice he has not blamed Labour because he can't - intelligence gathering is under the umbrella of the whole Government - not one side or the other.
I don't think he should apologise I think he has been marvellous & so Australian not dobbing on the real perpetrators of the spying.Indonesia is bullying & we give so much to them in aid etc & they don't give anything to us really except the smugglers & illegal immigrants.
No, do not apologise Tony, as there is nothing to be sorry for. If Indonesia can't grow up, forget them and save millions of dollars - Australia doesn't need them or their boat people. They are all corrupt pollies so they should get over their tantrum.
Absolutely not. Prime Minister Abbot is nothing more than a scapegoat for the left-wing, greenie ABC. What the critics do not understand (or choose to ignore) is that, firstly, the situation is another KRUDD stuff up; secondly. Indonesia must be the most ungrateful, forgetful nation in the world: Prime Minister Silly-Bum-Bum-Useless-Arsehole has a Me-Me-Me attitude which serves nothing more than his pathetic ego.
Isn't it funny so many people love spy stories, flock to James Bond movies and yet when it happens in real life so many people (who all know it's happening on both sides) feign indignation and horror. It's a beat up at a political level and should be treated appropriately. Perhaps we should suggest that if the Indonesians find us so objectionable we will all stop going to Bali...
i doubt if tony would apologise for anything be it this indonesia incident or any stupidity he does himself.
Tony Abbott doesn't need to apologize for anything. Why aren't you calling on KRudd to apologise - this happened on his watch, remember? Tony Abbott doesn't do stupid, you'r confusing him with the other galahs from the other party, you know, Labor? You seem to have a short memory although they were only defeated less than 3 months, yes MONTHS, ago.Maybe you need to have a medical check-up. Alzheimers setting in, me thinks?
worry , i worry that your vote counts , ok you do not like labor , do not advertise yours lack of knowledge
I think if any one is to apoligise it should be the former labour government as it was them that would have done this
NO. He didn't cause the problem K.Rudd did.
Here, here forget (or should it be "remember" ;D), all's quiet in the KRUDD camp about this issue, Juliar Gillard had her 2-cents worth, silly ninny and that new guy is being investigated by the Victorian Police on a rape case anyway so good riddance to the lot of them!
I think a lot of people are missing the point. It's not WHO did the spying as I'm sure that's been happening for years, it's about HOW Tony Abbott is handling the issue.He doesn't have to say sorry, but he can say he regrets what has occurred - surely?There are lots more Indonesians than Aussies!!
Tony Abbott handled it very well. You shouldn't listen to the media, particularly the ABC. They'll swear till they're black and blue that red is white and vica versa. He handled it very well. Spoke to the Indonesian Government, not the military, who were master-minding the whole fraccas, and remained circumspect when they burned the Austrlian flag outside our Embassy. Shame Indonesia, Shame.
I think you are the only person here showing any common sense. As you say the point is Mr Abbott is not showing any diplomacy... Every one seems to be only thinking about what we do for Indonesia but Mr Abbott's government also wants Indonesia to help us out with the people smuggling problem... A simple explanation with words of regret that this happened at the start would have probably been accepted with good grace and everything smoothed over by now...
why should he? All countries do it, The USA spied on us in the 60s 70s 80s and most probably still doing it!!!
No he shouldn't in fact if they are being difficult he should stop all their financial aid!
Absolutely not! The Indonesian government are not to be trusted.
Why should our Prime minster apologise,we have help this country many times in disater releif and every one does this so Mr Abbot shouldsay no
Tony Abbott is the one that needs to respond. He is the current Prime Minister and recognised as the countries leader. An appology isn't essential, but a contrite statement would be what I would expect of a reasonably competent diplomat.
Tony Abbott did make a statement and contacted his Indonesian counterpart immediately. He made it clear that Australia has nothing to apologize about and that Indonesia does exactly the same thing. Indonesia's military (who are the ones really in charge) responded by burning Australia's flag outside the Australian Embassy with nary a word from their political leaders. The ABC and that other mule, SBS, reported it like it was an honourable thing the Indonesians were doing and had the audacity to call for it's own government to apologize!! Shameful use of taxpayers' money going to these charlartans. Time to let the ABC know who really pays their wages - and it's not the Indonesians.
I think we should just sever all relations with Indonesia - we send them who knows how many millions each year to help with their infrastructure and it ends up in the hands of their corrupt pollies. Let them sort themselves out and just leave us out of the picture. As for the boat people, if they are caught in Indonesian water, then that becomes their problem, not ours.
Ditto. If someone has to apology on Australia's behalf and keep our country safe then it should be the previous Labor Govt. Makes you wonder what else they were up to for which 'we' need to apologise
I don't think so, If the indonesian government don't beleive that their phones were bugged by us. that's thier bad luck. I think that they are just picking a fight to try to get more financial aid from us. STICK TO YOUR GUNS, TONY, DO NOT APOLOGISE.
No. He has got nothing to apologise for. How much spying has Indonesia done on Australia?
Totally agree. No one has gotten up in arms about the spying indonesia did on Australia in 2004 (I think that is the year the TV news gave). Besides that, if countries have to start apologising for quietly keeping abreast of what other overseas countries might be doing that is harmful to their country, then soon they, and us included, will have to be apologising for the most ridiculous things these other countries can dream up to accuse us of. Such as not providing enough aid, starting the smallpox epidemics, and so on and so forth. In this era, we need to have surveillance, and if indonesia was doing nothing harmful to Australia they wouldn't be worrying. They would accept it is the norm. It's just another excuse to get rid of their unwelcome boat people to Australia, and not take any responsibility on their part.
I fully agree with you. The Australian Govt are weary of their huge well trained army. Why wouldn't they be they have the numbers and we have not.
I agree that it was the previous government that did the spying not Tony Abbots lot, so perhaps they should be the ones making the apology. Oh and don't forget Indonesia is not as innocent as they make out, they did some spying on us a few years ago and did we carry on like they are - No we didn't! A load of crap if you ask me, an ant hill being made into a mole hill!
My whole family are so proud of Tony Abbot for standing his ground with Indonesia...they love to get the world's attention and think they are a country to be wary of....I remember Julia Gillard presenting him President Bambang Yudhoyono with one of the Highest Australian Honours....where was she coming from to honour him as we have more of our own Australian who deserves and do not get this honour! And they did not help her with the Asylum Seekers!!!! Indonesia has put to death a number of Australians just to make a point on drugs...they were not terrorists! This is all they can do to get on the world stage...they are a corrupt country and have always been....Our Foreign Aid to them should stop...just what do they do for Australia....they do not deserve what they are getting....Stand up to them like no has Tony Abbot....they need us more than we need them.....They too have spied on Australia...did John Howard demand an apology!!! No!!! because every country has been doing this to protect themselves....GO AWAY INDONESIA, WE ARE SICK OF YOU TRYING TO TELL US WHAT TO DO....Now they will take it out on the Australian Prisoners.....Priminister! call our Ambassador back from Indonesia...show them you can play the same game!!!!!The Army is more important than the people so please Bill Shorten, shut-up as you lot started this...and let Tony Abbot and his team deal with it in their own way......
Well said! i couldnt have put it better myself, what a joke this has become!
What can I say you said it all and said it well, enough is enough, the Indonesian government needs to deal with their own problems and stop blaming Australia for everything that goes wrong , you watch they will come crawling back when they need our help, they are users and our government needs to put its foot down, go Tony Abbott stand by your guns you did nothing wrong. And you made some great points what bout the Austrlians that deserve ocolades our government ignore them, shame.
Everything you said is so true, govrnments are not in the business of apalgising they are there to run a country is was Rudd and Gillard who did this and Labour supporters need to face facts, way to go.
good onya Dakwagag. with you all the way!
I think that Kevin Rudd and Julia Guillard are the ones who should apologise they are the ones who were in Government at the time.
Never a truer word said krudd/gillard are the ones not Tony
Totally agree
Agree they caused it all and gillard has the audacity to demand Tony apologise yeah sure she should get of her high horse and explain why they did it
l agree with you as well.
You can't wander back through history to find some-one to blame when you achieve the power of change. JJ
No Tony Abbott should not apologise at all. It was in Labor's watch; the reason I think that it was not brought up because Labor was in power and they did not want to open it up; why? Since 2009 the ABC knew about it and only opened it up recently, why? Because the Coalition Party are in and Labor is out, so it is a lot easier to pass the buck isn't it? Every country spies on each other, to protect its own country, has been done since year dot and will continue. This is REAL life that we are talking about not a James Bond Movie. Get on with it you trolls out there from the Labor Party and get on with your oppositioning....Hats off to you Mr Tony Abbott, if I were you seeing Indonesia has stopped all dealings with us, do not give them once cent in aid...not a cent. Who do they think they are ordering us about?
Obama did not apologise to Merkel from Germany. She had a little pout for a while and then moved on. Indonesia has no idea how to act in a political situation and maybe they will not want come here in their leaky old boats. Problem solved....
i AGREE!!
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